Practically Christian Podcast

Win The Fight By Changing The Rules

• Josh and Debbie

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Arguments don’t wreck relationships—bad rules do. We sat down to unpack a counterintuitive promise: you can “win” every fight by changing what winning means. Instead of louder voices and sharper comebacks, we build a simple, repeatable framework that turns conflict into connection, whether you’re married, parenting, or navigating tough moments at work.

We start by swapping pride for purpose. Borrowing the logic of rules of engagement, we set boundaries that keep the relationship safe: when to talk, when to pause, and where the hard conversations happen. You’ll hear why a demilitarized zone—a consistent, private space—reduces shame and performative arguing, and how banning the words never and always stops character attacks before they start. We also explore why only a few hills deserve a fight and how aligning on end goals keeps you moving toward a shared future rather than short‑term wins.

Then we get practical. We break down a de‑escalation continuum you can use tonight: start with curiosity, keep it private, escalate slowly, and agree on a timed pause when tempers spike. There’s a quick tour of the brain science behind anger—why the prefrontal cortex goes quiet and the limbic system takes over—and how sleep, movement, and clear reconvene times restore logic and empathy. Throughout, we anchor the conversation in faith and humility, showing how restraint is strength and how peacemaking protects intimacy.

Ready to rewrite the script on conflict? Grab our free Rules of Engagement at missionscent.org/church under Resources, put them on the table with your spouse or family, and try them this week. If this helped, subscribe, share with a friend who argues about everything, and leave a review to help others find the show.

https://www.missionsent.org/

Josh:

Like you were struggling just now. I was. Hello, and welcome to another episode of Practically Christian Podcast. Welcome. Hope you're excited. Hope you're ready. Because I am going to teach you how to win every single fight you ever get into. With anyone or you're just your spouse? Anyone. Anyone ever. Didn't you say that last week? No. Last week was learn how to stay alive. Okay. This week I'm going to teach you how to win every fight. It may not have the outcome that you think it's going to have, but you're going to win. You're going to win. So as we kick into this one, in the military, all right. If someone threw a rock at you, you can't just call in an airstrike. Okay.

unknown:

Okay.

Josh:

In education in education, right? You know, if uh if a kid farted in class. I'm not expelling them. Right. Right. Because we have, like in the military and law enforcement, we have what are called rules of engagement. Right. In fact, if you've ever seen a top gun. Okay. Okay, hold on. Let me rephrase this. If you're our age, you saw top gun. Yes. If you're your kid's age, you saw top gun maverick. Yes. Both of them talk about the same thing. There's a hard deck at 13,000 feet or whatever it was. I forget what it was now. You're not allowed to go below that deck. You're not allowed to go below that altitude. Right. That is what is called a rule of engagement. If there is a plane below that altitude, you are not allowed to engage with that plane. Okay. Um and so when we look at Valentine's Day, because I was just about to say something about Valentine's Day. This episode will be coming out. Um perfect timing. Right before Valentine's Day. Um off with his head. That's a whole other story. So Valentine's Day, by the time you're listening to this, should be within the next like week, week and a half.

SPEAKER_02:

Um you can even gift this episode to your SIG.

Josh:

You can. I don't know how well that would go over for you, but but you could.

SPEAKER_02:

You could.

Josh:

But in other words, like rules of engagement, they they really govern what has to happen in order for you to engage with the enemy. Right. And it's funny because you say enemy, um, going back to military police officers, you think, you know, being in a combat zone or um being on a hot call. But you also can have those moments in your marriage. You can. Can you can have those moments where you're gonna have those hot moments where you that could mean many, many things. Not a good hot moment. That could be, yeah. Um you may want to call it an airstrike at that moment. Or you ever want to call an airstrike in on me? Be honest, just irrelevant. Be honest. An airstrike, no. Maybe throw a rock at you, maybe. I don't know. That wouldn't have worked that way. No, I know. No, actually, I could catch it. Actually, no, the kind of person I am, you know how I am. I'm like, deuces, I'm out. Like, I've always been a runner. One of the things, and and I'll tell you right now, one of my biggest pet peeves could be all right. Let me let me just set the stage first.

SPEAKER_01:

Let me rewind.

Josh:

It's not necessarily rewinding, because you know I have the tendency to share more than I should. Oh yes. Um, but I'm gonna so I'm gonna set the stage. Oh boy. Honestly, from everything I am on my children, me and Debbie do not argue a whole lot to begin with. Not saying we've never argued. We have. Um, and and some of them have been bad. Um we make it worth it. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And I am not, and and this is something we've talked about a lot, right? I tend to be, I I am, I never look for an argument. Oh, but you do not back down from one. Yes. And so as we're discussing all of this, my big pet peeve. All right, so, and this is not gonna be new to you, is we could be like, it could be it, it it always starts something simple, right? Deb, what do you want for dinner? And that turns into a back and forth. And it's like, how are we having a back and forth when I was trying to be like considerate and thoughtful? I know your dietary restrictions are a lot more than me and the kids. And and next thing you know like where I've refused to eat when we've gone somewhere. Right. And and next thing I know, like it's not even an argument, as much as it's this little like festering, like, you know, you're trying to be nice and and go, hey, don't base this on me. Yep, 100%. I'm sitting here as your husband going, I want to care and concern uh have care and concern about you. I want you to eat. Right. Um and next thing you know, like a comment will be said, and then it will be well, you know, back in 2011. Right. I remember when, and here we are again in 2026, having the same stupid conversation. Yeah. Where where I'm sitting here going, I just wanted to know what you wanted to eat. Well, not just that, like in the past 15 years has nothing changed. Right. Like, why are you bringing this up?

SPEAKER_01:

Right, right, right.

Josh:

And and so one of the reasons that I think that has kept us to where arguments are definitely at a minimum. Right. One of the biggest things. Um Jesus. Obviously, it's Jesus, 100%. Um, because if you follow Christ, you you learn pride comes before the fall. You learn that, like, like seriously, when you stop and think of Jesus, just just looking at ego and pride and and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

Josh:

Here you have Jesus who stands before Pilate. And and Pilate even tells him, you know, do you not know that I have the power to take your life? And Jesus, Jesus' response is beautiful. He goes, Right, you cannot take my life, I lay it down.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

Josh:

He's choosing to restrain. Right. Like Jesus could have just at that moment just been like and everything was done. He could have chosen violence that day. He could have. So, number one, if that's who we're following, and in Ephesians 5, where Paul talks about, you know, husbands, love your wife as Christ loved the church, and gave his life up for her, you know, I I do try to keep that in mind when it comes to our marriage. You know, if someone has to die, it needs to be me. So that that's that's number one. But that would be. Yes. Okay. I'm just wondering. All married men. Well, no, all men. All men. You know, you were created stronger on purpose to serve, protect. To serve and protect. Like just talk to the kids in class about this. Um in fact, one of the things I think we see with society is that trying to reverse the opposite of it. And I go, it doesn't work that way. Like it it just it doesn't. You know, but you see men or little boys, I should say, um, not being men, and then you wonder why we have these problems.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

Josh:

So that's one thing. Another thing is marriage is not hard in the fact. Now I know we have talked about this many times where you're like, marriage is easy for you, it's not easy for me. It's always been easier for you, yeah. Marriage isn't hard when you sit here and go, I'm gonna put the other person above myself. And if they do the same for you, it it is really easy. And it's not like I'm going, I hate being married, I love being married to you. Um but my natural instinct from years beyond um has always been to nope, I'm running. I'm not doing this. Right. And but that's a deeper rooted issue that has nothing to do with actually being married. Right, but with what I'm talking about though, like when we start looking at things like this, this becomes our rules of engagement. You know, and the last one that really is is one that I think I say a lot is is you have to pick your hills to die on.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

Josh:

But not everything can be a hill.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

Josh:

Like you should not have more than like four, maybe five hills. Major hills, yeah. That that you're sitting here going, This is worth a battle. Yeah, this I will fight for. Um and and I go, but that's our marriage, and that's our rules for engagement. And and if it's not violating these, then our marriage is not even gonna be, we're not even gonna have a conversation about it really. Well, like, even with arguing, there have been times, especially recently, where I'm like, look, like I'm I'm just I'm not even gonna argue about this. Say what you have to say, but like this isn't important enough. And we've had to work through with what you look at as dismissive and and me being dismissive of what you're saying, right? Where you know, I'm sitting here going, it's not that I'm trying to be dismissive of you, it's I'm sitting here going, This isn't a hill for me to die on.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

Josh:

And therefore, I'm gonna just lay down like here you go. And and I go, but we know all of this ahead of time. And and so as we're looking at Valentine's Day, a day that we're here to, hey, I'm gonna celebrate love and all the things of love. Right. First and foremost, you guys know um, Saint Valentine was beheaded, and that's what you're celebrating. Right. That's why I said off with his head. Second of all, this is a heavy topic. Right. Because I go, yes, marriage, sex, and kids are the number one, two, and three reason for divorce here in America. In that order. Or yeah, yeah, yeah. I said marriage dinner. Yeah. That's been happening a lot today, where I just say things and then it's like, that's not what I mean. Nope, that's not what I meant. Um, but money, sex, and kids are the number one, two, and three reason for divorce in America. Right. I'm gonna go ahead and say though, that there's one thing that's over all of that. What's that? And that's communication. Like if you can communicate, right, money all of a sudden isn't the problem.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

Josh:

You know, because it's not money that is the problem.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

Josh:

It's how you spend the money, it's how much money there is. Like, you know, we've been very, very poor and and homeowners. Very, very you know, all of all of those kind of things. Yeah. Um it's extra stress that is building because of lack of resources, but it's still communication and miscommunication is what the actual problem is. Right, because instead of a situation arising and one or the other going, all right, we need to pause and de-escalate, we go, I'm gonna add fuel to this fire and like you said, throw in all these other things. So instead of someone going, hang on, let me hang on, let's step back up first, because that's actually happened. Hang on, let's back up for a second. What's what what's actually happening here? Right. Um, but I also think that's a pride issue. I'm not gonna back down because I'm going to win. Well, and and that very well could be. But like what you were just talking about is Or you may not have the skills to do it. So in an argument, and again, a lot like when we think of use of force, right in an argument, there should be a continuum that you work on.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

Josh:

Right? Like I don't approach a situation, um let's say we disagree about dinner. Okay, we'll we'll we'll go with dinner, right? Like I want I want a big greasy burger. You're like, no, I want something fresh and green. And and so, okay, we have this. Well, I can't right out the gate just start yelling. I can't just be like, what do you mean you want greens? Like, like that would be that would be ridiculous. It would be. And what it's going to cause is the is for you. Immediately I'm gonna hold on. I'm gonna blow up. Yeah, because you're like, hold on, who are you talking to? Yes, pride is probably the the reason on both sides, sure, but it's also ridiculous. And I go, here's the thing anytime you have a relationship, whether it's husband, wife, parent, kid, um, you know, sibling, uh a girlfriend, boyfriend, a friend, any kind of a boss employee, you're gonna have disagreements, you're gonna have like areas that you don't see eye to eye. Right. Um but you you shouldn't just be jumping from one to the next. Right. I mean, that's what Matthew 18 was all about, right? Jesus went, hey, when there's problems, here's how you solve it. First go to them privately, then bring a small group, you know, together, and then go in front of the whole church. Like, but when we look at use of force, some of us, most of us, we look at force and go the stronger one wins.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

Josh:

So if I can be louder, if I can be stronger, if I can be intimidating, if I can be all of that, right, I'm gonna win. When in fact, what our goal should be is reconciliation and not winning an argument. Every single time it should be reconciliation because if you always go, well, I'm just gonna speak my mind and say what I'm thinking, what you're thinking and feeling may should just sometimes stay with you. A hundred percent. Um, because especially because if if we're coming from a place of emotion, you can destroy your life very quickly. Very quickly. Yeah. Because once those words come out, you cannot get them back in. And that's with your marriage, that's with your kids, with your job. Yeah. You open your mouth and say the wrong thing. Well, and see, and even if we were to look at this from a biological standpoint, right? So your prefrontal cortex, which i is at the front of your brain, it's it's up by your forehead. That is the area of your brain that actually processes complex things like emotion and logic and and things of that nature. The more angry you get, the more that part of your brain deactivates and it starts going back into what's called the lymphatic system, which is what controls the fight or flight response. So when you start feeling hot and your heart starts racing and sweating, you're like, what's going on here? But what you fit what you can't do at that point is think logically. Right. You can't like start thinking through things.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

Josh:

Now everything becomes a reaction. And and like we we looked at last week or last not last week, last episode. Yeah. With complacency, it's the same thing. We become very reactive at that point.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

Josh:

And some of us, our natural reaction is to fight, some of us our natural reaction is to run, right? You know, and and I don't like that fight, flight, or freeze. Um, because freezing isn't a reaction. No. That condition black, like we talked about last episode, right, isn't a reaction to an external stimuli. You're overwhelmed and don't know what to do. Right. Like your brain literally at that point is sitting here going, I'm I don't know. Right. Mayday, mayday. Like, yeah. And and so when we're looking at this and you're in that argument, one of your rules of engagement may be or should be, hey, we're gonna take a break.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

Josh:

Like we're gonna walk away. We're gonna let our we're gonna let our emotions and everything calm back down. Maybe it's hey, we're gonna take a 10-minute break. Maybe it's uh, we're gonna take a 20-minute break. Maybe it's hey, after dinner, you know. We've actually been we've had conversations where we talked and then was like, all right, we're gonna wait three days, five days, and then readdress this then. Right. From a from a a a totally different mental um capacity, and sometimes that may be what you need to do. There are times we've been like, we need to sleep because it's been so busy and we've been so tired. Yeah. There is gonna be no good out of this conversation. Right. So let's get some good rest, a couple nights of good sleep, and then talk about it again. And the other thing too is like with what you were just saying, is sometimes that gives you a nice reset.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

Josh:

You know, okay, you you go to bed, you wake up in the morning. Yes, there have been times where I woke up fighting mad. Sure. Um, to quote some girl. Sometimes, huh? But for the most part, what winds up happening is you have a mental reset. Your adrenaline can calm down. Yeah, everything's flushed out. Okay, now let's let's approach this again. Right. So one of your rules of engagement may be when it hits a certain point, we're going to put it, we're gonna we're gonna hit pause. Now, I say this with the if that's one of your rules, understand it's just pause. It's not forget about it, leave it off the table. Which is what most people want to do. Right. They just want to let it go, and then we're not talking about this again. And I'm not saying that that that never has a has a case. Sometimes that should be um sometimes you're just not gonna be able to. Like, and and I get that. But on things, most things, 98% of things, understand it's just a pause. You're gonna have to come back to it because otherwise it's just gonna sit there and fester and it's gonna get infected and it's gonna be even worse. It's like gangrene. Another rule of engagement may be um never use the words never or always. You never come to my defense. Right. You always choose whatever. Because that's not true. Very seldomly will that be true. Right. Right, like very seldomly will you always or never whatever. Not saying that that's not the case. That very well could be here and there, but that's probably not all the time. And both of those are words that just immediately escalate. Yep. Like, and that's the thing, like it's you you can escalate up or you can de-escalate down, right? And those words are very, very incriminating and will consistently cause escalation in a conversation, and uh essentially cause long-term damage, you know, and then another rule of engagement may be like what we would call a DMZ or a demon demilitarized zone. Okay. Now, this may be your bedroom. Like, my bedroom is my place. Well, that's a lie. My boat is my place of peace. Yeah, like that's sure. Like, I don't care how mad, and and I've been very mad at Debbie on the boat. Like when she was not catching shrimp. Oh, yes. But we're on the boat, we're on the water, like this is not the place to have a full-on argument. Right. Um, one thing, like, for us, I know, um, is our bedroom is the place where if we're gonna have a a heated discussion, it's going to be in the bedroom. Um, and and the reason, you know, that is, is because A, um, I'm not saying never have arguments in front of your kids. You know, they need to see that too. Which yeah, we've done that. There are times we've actively continued a conversation that was heated in front of the kids 'cause in one of our heads or both of our heads it was like they need to see how this plays out. Right. 'Cause they're gonna be married one day. Right. And have a similar conversation. Right. And and so sometimes, yeah, they need to see that. But the v the the vast majority of times, again, if we look at Matthew 18, it's first go to that person in private.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

Josh:

You know, and and so I've we've always used our room because that's private. Now, some people, it may be the back porch or it may be the kitchen, or you know, you may want that neutral area or something of that nature. Um, I get that. But maybe one of them, one of your rules is to sit here and go, no, like we're gonna have a place where this is the place for that.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

Josh:

You know, for me, the bedroom always made sense because A, it's private, right? B it is always a reminder to me, we're in this together. You're not my enemy. Right. Like we just are, you know, we're for the most part, we're gonna have the same goal. It's how we get there is different. Right. And I go, so what better way to remind myself of that than in our bedroom? You know? And I go, but those are just examples too. Right. Like again, everyone's marriage is gonna be a little bit different, you know, and everybody, not even just, and I know we keep saying marriage, but like understand this goes for every relationship in your life. Like, well, even when working with the kids, I tell them, you know, when they're fighting with each other or arguing, our kids at home or at school. Yeah, you need to take a break from each other. Right. We can talk about this in a little bit. You're mad, you're mad. Everyone calm down, and we can come back together later after you've calmed down, and we can sit down and have a conversation about it. Is there something against the microphone? I feel like I'm crouching down and I don't like it. It can move to wherever you want. I just feel like I just I don't know. I don't know. I just I don't know. I don't like it. And that and and honestly, but like like you just said, whether it's our kids at home, it's the kids at school, understand like that's what I mean. This this applies to every relationship you have. You know, if if we actually had rules that we followed, right, um a lot of the problems could be handled in a totally different manner.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

Josh:

And and not even in an all-out war.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

Josh:

You know, war, arguments, stuff like that, that should be your last resort, not the first place you go to. Right. You know, and and then And I think about scripture, and you know, and there's that song that says, You think being meek is weak, try being meek for a week. Right. And, you know, blessed are the peacemakers. You know, be a peacemaker. I I t I told someone that today, you know, as long as it depends on you, is it Romans 12 18? I think it is. As long as it depends on you, live peaceably among one another. They're gonna try to call me out. Like I do know it's Romans 12. I think it's Romans 12.18, but as you know, as far as it depends on you, live peaceably among one another. So regardless of what the other person is doing, if you can maintain yourself calm and peace peaceful, then you should. And if you don't know how to do that, go seek someone else who you go, I they know how you handle this well. That's happened to us before. How do you guys stay so calm? How do you, you know, not we've had people in our home, like you said, a lot, have said, you guys really don't argue. And we don't. Not that we didn't. Well, I mean, there's always a learning curve. We've learned, but you know, you can get to a point where you know you can lay your pride down and lay your, you know, self-righteousness down and go, the long-term goal is more important than me being right in this moment. And and I'm glad you said that because I was going to like end with that is sit here and go, All right, but what's your end goal? You win this argument right now. Right. Rocking chairs on the front porch. Like you win this argument right now. Is it going to get you closer to that goal? Right. Or is it gonna pull you further away from it? Right, because a lot of times, and that's what I mean when when when I was talking about have hills to die on. Yes, absolutely. There are things that are so important to me that like I'm gonna argue this. And understand that what you might argue for that is so important to you. May not be important to the other person. May not be important to the other person. There are things that are huge for me that Josh is like, I literally don't understand at all why that matters at all. Yeah, and and then that's why I said, like, everything can't be a hill. Like for me, you know, it it really is. It's faith, family, fishing, freedom. A lot of F words. But you you know what I mean? Like it's that kind of thing where I sit here and go, is this going to, you know, is this an attack on my faith? Is this an attack on my family? Right. You know, is this gonna keep me from going fishing? Right. Like those things I will fight for. Like that's true. You know, other than that, I mean tomato, tomato, no big deal. No, not at all. I mean I mean, there are times we've had discussions where I was like, I literally do not care. Like, I whatever. But see, and I go, but you want to be a miserable person in life? Uh argue about everything. Yeah. Some of the most miserable people I know argue about every thing. And that's everything, everything can't be that important. And I will tell you, if you are that person, that is exhausting for the people around you. Well, and it's exhausting for you. That's why you're so tired all the time. Yep. So until next episode, I hope you have a happy Valentine's Day. Happy Valentine's. Yeah, happy Valentine's Day. Oh, it's like Mary Valentine's Valentine's Day. Um, and if you made it this far, so if you go to missionscent.org forward slash church, right there, as soon as the page opens, you'll see resources. So there's a ton of resources that we are putting together on one simple page, just one click, and you can see it says resources. Boom, click that resource button, and and you'll have access to all of like the the standard operating procedures from the family episode. You know, you know, we're gonna have some stuff for rules of engagement, like just ways you can sit down with whoever, your your spouse, your kids, your family, you know, friends, whoever, and go, hey, like have you guys talked about this, thought about this? Well, here's let's set some rules, you know. Here's how we're gonna handle problems in the future, here's you know, how we're gonna do all that. In fact, that's my challenge to you this week. Like, go to the website, pull up the rules of engagement, right, and work through it with someone. Like whoever it is that you need to work through that with. And until next episode. We love you. We can't do this without you. We thank you. We thank you and can't do this without you. Share the episode with someone. Yeah, and we can't do this without you. Bye guys. Bye.

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Debbie

Host
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Josh

Host