Practically Christian Podcast

Trust Is The Real Topic

• Josh and Debbie

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A hallway chat about flat earth lit the fuse—but the explosion wasn’t about science. It was about trust. We’ve all felt it: headlines that spin, institutions that protect themselves, and platforms that sound more “human” than the people in charge. That’s the current we wade into as we ask a harder question: when credibility sinks across the board, how can Christians rebuild it in public, practical ways that actually serve our neighbors?

We start by tracing the rise of alternative authorities—YouTube, TikTok, and influencers—explaining why confident clips often outrun careful research. Then we turn the mirror on the church. From money scandals to abuse coverups to celebrity meltdowns, these well-known failures amplify a broader suspicion: if institutions won’t be honest when it hurts, why should we trust their message when it heals? We share a moving story of someone wounded by church responses to sexuality, underscoring how pain, not just disagreement, drives people away from faith communities.

Rather than hand-wringing, we get practical. We outline five habits that rebuild credibility: be present in the community without an agenda; be open and accessible as leaders and neighbors; be transparent about personal struggles and church finances; be honest even when it costs popularity; and be a real community, not a one-person show. These aren’t PR tactics; they’re everyday practices that make the gospel plausible again. If you’ve wondered how to earn a hearing on hard topics—identity, ethics, purpose—this is your field guide to trust lived out loud.

Join us, try the one-week challenge to connect beyond your comfort zone, and tell us what you learn. If this conversation helps, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find their way back to trustworthy community.

https://www.missionsent.org/

SPEAKER_00:

You're listening to practically Christian podcasts. Taking all that information you got all in your brain and giving you real practical application. Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for the applause and the love. Welcome to Hello. Welcome to Practically Christian Podcast.

SPEAKER_02:

Welcome.

SPEAKER_00:

So that was pretty loud, my bad. So I have a new soundboard today?

SPEAKER_02:

Why?

SPEAKER_00:

All new sounds. Oh gosh. Because I was bored. And I found stuff.

SPEAKER_02:

You get in trouble when you're bored.

SPEAKER_00:

Now that being said, well, everybody gets in trouble when they're bored, let's be honest.

SPEAKER_02:

That's true.

SPEAKER_00:

Now that being said, that is not what we are currently discussing on today's episode. Um, just a little backstory about today's episode. It was supposed to come out on Wednesday.

SPEAKER_02:

And we did record.

SPEAKER_00:

And I absolutely hated it. It was rough. I don't want that to be a good represent I I did not find that a good representation of what you know to be true. So so that one got deleted. And you know, it's it's it's on the same topic. Have no fear. It is. Um not that you knew what the topic was anyway. You didn't. Um but but anyway, this one's gonna be much better. I have I have made that resolution as long as our dog who is now joining us in the podcast booth stays quiet.

SPEAKER_02:

Welcome, sir.

SPEAKER_00:

He's probably not gonna add a lot.

SPEAKER_02:

But he doesn't add a lot. He takes a lot.

SPEAKER_00:

Today's topic is seriously, it's one that I was really like super excited to do. Right.

SPEAKER_02:

Um It just got away from us.

SPEAKER_00:

It really did. But um, just to give a little background info, um I was talking with another teacher at work after work one day, and and the conversation went through like at least ten different topics. And then it got two. And then all of a sudden they were like, Do you b do you believe that the earth is flat?

SPEAKER_02:

Which that really made the conversation an extensive at first Well, at first I thought it was like Did you okay when they said that to you, because I walked away. Did you giggle? Did you think they were joking?

SPEAKER_00:

I did, and I started joking back, you know, and then you felt bad. Oh, how absurd.

SPEAKER_02:

And then I realized you know, a couple of sentences in.

SPEAKER_00:

I was like, oh, they're serious, they're being like serious. And and and and the other teacher I was talking to, like they don't believe that the earth was flat. They were just asking they well, they did a lot of research.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, and and they're not saying that the world is flat. They're not saying that the world's not flat.

SPEAKER_02:

But they're questioning.

SPEAKER_00:

They're questioning. Right. Um, which yes, at first I did think it was a joke because you know You're going, there's no way. Most people believe that um Pythagoras in about 500 BC, the guy that gave us the guess what theorem. Pythagorean. Yeah, the Pythagorean theorem. Yeah, that makes sense. He um he had already came out and said in in 500 BC that the earth is round. Right. Um, you know, in uh some somewhere around there because of eclipses of a lunar eclipse, and and they went, hey, if the earth is putting a shadow on the moon, it has to it has to be around because that's what the shadow is.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Now, fast forward, because obviously we are way past 500 BC. Right. Um, so fast forward some 2500 years, and it's a resurgence almost. I mean, even if you you go back to you know, Christopher Columbus's days, and I don't know if people out there remember um learning about it, the reasons like people, you know, the the whole theory was you couldn't sail anywhere because if you went too close, you'd fall off the edge that the earth was flat.

SPEAKER_02:

That was the fear.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, because these ships would leave and not come back and and never come back. So they these people must have gone somewhere.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. They didn't re they didn't they figure they went off the side of the the earth.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And and I'm gonna be honest, you know, you you've already given us four and a half minutes of your time. So if you're waiting to hear if it's flat or not. Yes, proof of bump bum bump.

SPEAKER_02:

If you're waiting to hear That was really loud.

SPEAKER_00:

No answers. We're not gonna get to it.

SPEAKER_02:

Um That is not the point.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, the point isn't is the world flat or round? Right.

SPEAKER_02:

Um I think Of course he never barks, and then of course now you're gonna bark.

SPEAKER_00:

Um he apparently decided uh-uh, go. He apparently decided He wanted to um to um be a part of the episode. He did. You we're not here to discuss whether or not the earth is round or or flat. Right. Um I am a believer that it's not that is round. Um I think the majority of evidence nowadays would support that. Right. However, I do want to look into this a little deeper because as I started researching, once I found out that this other teacher was being dead serious and and it was an interesting topic, um, I did start reading a lot of articles about it. I did start reading and watching some YouTube videos about it, and and it is a much bigger phenomenon than I would have ever given it credit for in the year 2022.

SPEAKER_02:

And it's not just coming from people that don't believe in Jesus because a lot of people think that's what happens.

SPEAKER_00:

This is coming from people who there are Christians that that believe this as well, yes. And according to uh the website pursuit.university of Melbourne dot edu.

SPEAKER_02:

Australia.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, this is an Australian G'day, mate. Throw another shrimp on the Bobby.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00:

What?

SPEAKER_02:

Keep going.

SPEAKER_00:

Like there's not American stereotypes all over the world.

SPEAKER_02:

Of course there is McDonald's, franchise.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm sure there's someone right now listening to this episode going, I'm just a shoot my guns off.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, keep coming.

SPEAKER_00:

Keep it coming. But anyway, according to the website, it says, you know, concerning flat earth theory. And it's getting more traction than some of the other conspiracies out there. Like chemtrails. Right. Which propose that a plane's long-lasting condensation trail is actually made up of chemical or a biological agent. Like, like there are conspiracy, like this is like a rabbit hole of things to get lost.

SPEAKER_02:

You can get lost in it.

SPEAKER_00:

You know.

SPEAKER_02:

Like most conspiracy theories.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh yeah. Like, you know, are aliens real? You know, who shot Kennedy? Um, you know, like, does the should I am I allowed to say it? Does the Illuminati exist? You know, they're probably monitoring this. I mean, I know every bite of information that that comes through on the internet is monitored somewhere. I assume it is. Um But when you really start diving into this and you really start looking at all these different things you can get into, we understand that it's not so much is the worst world flat around. It's, you know, according to the same website, well, in part, according to the School of Culture and Communication Lecturer, Dr. Jennifer Beckett, it's due to a general shift towards populism and a distrust in the views of experts and mainstream media.

SPEAKER_02:

With reason. In Spanish, we say con razón. There's a reason people are mistrusting and disbelieving and not, you know, not trusting what the higher, you know, the higher what's the word I can't even say.

SPEAKER_00:

Well well, here, I'm gonna quote Dr. Jennifer Beckett again um because she said it's really about the power of knowledge and that increasing distrust in what we once considered to be the gatekeepers of knowledge, like academics, scientific agencies, or the government.

SPEAKER_02:

And honestly, you I'm not I'm not saying I buy into any of these conspiracy theories, but I get I do get where people are coming from with distrust. I mean, me personally going through things physically, medically, having to go through doctor after doctor.

SPEAKER_00:

And it's funny you bring that up because one of the Pew studies I read today um was talking about how doctors are actually the most trusted profession in America with eighty-two percent of people blindly just trusting the doctor.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm on the other side of that or you are the eighteen percent. I'm the eighteen percent that I've had to go through so much and you know, kind of tell doctors what's going on. Um so I get going, I don't care what your degree is, I don't care what you went to school for, I don't I don't believe you. I don't think you know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, I agree a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02:

So I get it, but I'm not saying that just because a few doctors I've gone to didn't do their due diligence that I'm just gonna throw the baby out with the bathwater.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Are you like we're not trying to propagate people don't trust the medical professional?

SPEAKER_02:

What I'm that's what I'm saying. I'm not gonna just go, I don't believe any of the doctors.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, okay. Like what you misunderstand what I was saying. I might have missed the sentence in there.

SPEAKER_02:

I said I'm not going to throw the baby away with the bathwater. Okay. Just because some of you know, I've had a few mishaps over the last decade.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, and the problem that I foresaw and everything that I've read and everything I've seen, um, is and again, like one of the first episodes we did, um in fact I think it was the first episode, the Intro to Practically Christian podcast. Our our very first episode. Do you pray when you poop? No, that was our second episode. Um I do. But in uh in our first episode, we actually talked about this, and and the example we gave there was like, you know, could you tell me who won the 1916?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yes, I remember that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um see, part of the problem is right now there's so much knowledge.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, there's so much, so many different avenues to get information that anybody can put anything on the internet and you could look it up and go You're listening to what's going on.

SPEAKER_00:

You're doing it right, you're listening to it right now. Like, you know, this is a form of information being shared. Right. And and part of the problem that especially, you know, that this University of Melbourne sees is they know that there's this burgeoning movement that speaks to how so-called social media influencers hold more sway than experts in the field, and that people are turning to YouTube as where they're getting their information from.

SPEAKER_02:

And that's hard because there are places on YouTube you like you've gone to YouTube to look at okay, how do I do this or how do I do that?

SPEAKER_00:

You can check out Mission Scent on YouTube. We have our own channel there.

SPEAKER_02:

We do, right.

SPEAKER_00:

With a lot of good information, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Especially workout videos. Anyway. List goes on.

SPEAKER_00:

Anyway, um but like you were saying, that's the problem.

SPEAKER_02:

There is such good information out there, and then you have we watched that thing today um on the relationship expert who probably had like millions and millions of views on how to um get into a good relationship, how to find the right partner. I go, you're talking about somebody who's like 15 years old, like giving I mean, probably not that young.

SPEAKER_00:

But not just that. Don't go to TikTok for stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02:

But you you that but that's where people are going. And and that again, that's the hard thing. There are things on there that is good and true and right, but then you have 10, 15 people on top of that one going you going the wrong way with it.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, going the opposite way, giving you bad information.

SPEAKER_00:

So so I think, you know, the these problems that we're seeing right now are more of a mix of you know, people going, I'm not gonna take it anymore.

SPEAKER_02:

Because again, the I I can't say what Well where it says YouTube becomes the content hub, Facebook becomes an administrative one-stop shop for that hub, and twit Twitter continue Twitter continually pushing out the messaging. Uh Dr. Beckett says she's liking YouTube to a sort of alternative documentary channel for flat earthers.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02:

And and and flat earth isn't just the one thing that we're talking about.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. It it's all sorts of this distrust because if you you keep reading in there, right? You see that Pew Research found that two-thirds of Americans distrust the news media and believe they purposely mislead Americans.

SPEAKER_02:

And I get what they're saying. I won't even like I have people send me news articles and links, and I go not even opening that.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, you're talking about like 200 million people in America that don't trust what the news is telling us. And then I mean, look at the war in Ukraine.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, obviously I'm against 100%, you know, uh unnecessary loss of life. Um but you know, you you can see YouTube videos that are sitting here going showing another side of it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's so it's hard because we're not getting all the information. And I think we're gonna be bent one way or another towards something. Um you know, only only two in ten Americans say they trust the government in Washington to do what's right, just about always. And then two percent No nineteen. Oh nineteen, I'm sorry, nineteen percent most of the time.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I go, that's terrible.

SPEAKER_00:

It is, but again, that in lies, like, and and don't get me wrong, like you're not talking about these well, yeah, you are talking about large swaths of people when when you're looking at distrust, but like as far as like conspiracy theorists and and you know, the the quote you did say from the deleted episode, I will throw in here.

SPEAKER_02:

Noah was a conspiracy theorist, and then it rained, and then all of a sudden it's oh it was like oh hold on, he was right. So I I know a lot of moms that um are I know a guy. I know a guy. Um, you know, they they use a lot of natural herbs and remedies at home.

SPEAKER_00:

Um hang on, real quick, okay? I I understand where you're going with this, and I have it's not on here.

unknown:

Dang it.

SPEAKER_00:

Whatever.

SPEAKER_02:

Are you done?

SPEAKER_00:

I don't oh well I guess this one kind of goes with it. Keep going. Tell us about the oils.

SPEAKER_02:

You make fun of me because I use oils? Because I use them on you too. Keep it up.

SPEAKER_00:

No, I'm not. I'm not making fun of you.

SPEAKER_02:

Anyway, they they I'm done.

SPEAKER_00:

I was looking for the witch one. Because that is the inside joke.

SPEAKER_02:

Are you done?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Tell everyone about your concoctions with witchcraft.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't even know where I was going from.

SPEAKER_00:

Deep blue.

SPEAKER_02:

Anyway. You know moms, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

So why is it for people easy for people like you can't just first of all, those are my notes. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Then don't send them to me. Because I won't use them.

SPEAKER_00:

Then you complain when I don't send them to you. No, you know a bunch of moms who use oils.

SPEAKER_02:

Natural herbs and remedies. And holistic things.

SPEAKER_00:

And yes, I'm joking because I'm giving Debbie a hard time. Um, yes, some of those things are amazing.

SPEAKER_02:

So they prove their points by going, the government wants us to give our kids XYZ, but they're telling us that we shouldn't give our children um teas and herbs and things that people have been using for thousands of years. So, you know, there's a joke that elderberry has formaldehyde and like there's this whole big thing going against it, and it's a bunch of moms going, ha, just kidding. That's in the vaccine or whatever. Right. So their point is you can't just go with whatever people are telling you.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, no, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02:

So I get it. You threw me off before, so that's what I was trying to say. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00:

I got an oil for that cough. I do have an oil for it. Get you some lemongrass, breathe in some breathe. And and again, I am just poking fun at that. Um you gotta do it right into the microphone.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't mean to.

SPEAKER_00:

There we go. We we just can turn your channel down.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, thank you. So sorry, you guys.

SPEAKER_00:

I am just poking fun. Um there are a lot of natural remedies out there. Um that yeah, I I think there are corporations that that are sitting here going, no, we want to suppress this information. Right. Because in the end, we're gonna lose money. It's gonna cost us money.

SPEAKER_02:

Follow the money, follow the science, whatever. Like sometimes they go together.

SPEAKER_00:

So so in looking at that, and looking at the problem is the distrust in institutions, that's why, you know, where where you were going. So why is it so easy for people to believe in flat Earth or other conspiracy, you know, aliens, Area 50. Remember a couple years ago they were going to rush Area 50.

SPEAKER_02:

Area 51, right? It's because they don't trust much else besides themselves.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02:

With reason. Like it's it's not like there's not reason.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. And that's where I was I definitely want to make sure we throw that in there.

SPEAKER_02:

There is definitely so I go, you just give people a little bit of reason not to trust, and by nature, we're like, we don't want to trust anyway, especially in the day and age we're living in.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

And so you just find a little hole in something, and then that's it. I'm done. I I know I'm like that with a lot of things. And I mean, am I not?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and I agree with that to a certain extent. Um I do. I am very skeptical by nature. Right. Um, and and let's be honest, being skeptical is not necessarily a bad thing.

SPEAKER_02:

There's nothing wrong with asking questions.

SPEAKER_00:

No. There's nothing wrong with going, hold on.

SPEAKER_02:

Hold on, what are you saying?

SPEAKER_00:

I this one might sound crazy to our listeners today. There's nothing wrong with having common sense and going, does this make sense?

SPEAKER_02:

And if it doesn't make sense, so to quote Dwight Shrood.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh gosh. Before I do anything, I ask myself, would an idiot do this?

SPEAKER_02:

Right, right. Is does he have something in his mouth?

SPEAKER_00:

No, he's sh he's literally chewing on the door jam.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, that's fine.

SPEAKER_00:

But but again, like there's nothing.

SPEAKER_02:

It's not a child chewing on the door jam.

SPEAKER_00:

It's our dog. There's nothing wrong with having skepticism. There's nothing wrong with asking questions. There's nothing wrong with digging deeper. In fact, I would argue as Christians, you're supposed to that's what you're called to.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Stop saying, oh, my pastor said, and start going, oh, Jesus said.

SPEAKER_02:

So you your question here is why don't people trust the way they used to?

SPEAKER_00:

And and I think we kind of covered that though. I mean, seriously, like we're consistently being lied to.

SPEAKER_02:

And then why would we trust? Right, and then leading into as Christians reasons people don't trust in the church anymore.

SPEAKER_00:

Well there was something else I need to talk about before we jump to that, but but um it's not it's it's not necessarily we don't trust individuals. Right. As much as it's we don't trust institutions. Right, right, right. You know, why don't we trust the government? Well, I mean, we can go through and look at all of the different ways why we shouldn't trust the government. Right. All of the lies. I mean, you can go back and especially in America. I mean, you can go back, you know, to the founding of America and go. This is why I don't trust. Right. You know. Why don't we trust, you know, in in seriously, even and again, I'm just gonna look at this through the scope of America because we live in America, right? Um, so if you're listening to this from somewhere else, we would love to hear what you have to say about it. Um, especially I would love to hear what you have to say about it, especially concerning what you think of America.

SPEAKER_01:

Of America, right.

SPEAKER_00:

Because that's been my new big thing on YouTube is listening to news outlets from other countries, yeah, other countries in the world. That's devastating here sometimes. Um but I go, like, you know, when when you think of trusting institutions and you look at like the defund police movement, I'm former law enforcement, I am very pro law enforcement. I think law enforcement is a necessity. Right. Um, because you sometimes need violent people to do violence on your behalf so that you can sleep well at night. Right. Okay, that's why we have a military, that's why we have law enforcement.

SPEAKER_02:

On the same note.

SPEAKER_00:

On the same note is that power abused.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, there are many cases. Okay, I'm not I'm not gonna say majority, I think the vast majority.

SPEAKER_02:

They get into it to do good.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, and and you know, genuinely have a desire for justice.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Are there exceptions to that rule?

SPEAKER_02:

100%.

SPEAKER_00:

150%. And and so when we start looking at like why we don't trust institutions, it's because people have done things in those institutions to cause the community to not trust. Now, since this is practically Christian podcast, yes, the institution we're gonna focus on most here is the church. So, what are some reasons people don't trust the church? Well, let's start with the most obvious and plain one embezzling money.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, look how many times it's come out. I mean, the Vatican City. Okay, and we're not Catholic, but Vatican City is actually the richest city in the world. Why? Because the church went, this is all ours.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. Give us more money.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, then you have, you know, people like um Jim and Tammy Baker, is that their names?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, with their amusement park that they were gonna do, and people were sending all this money, and oh it wasn't an amusement park. You know, you have pastors all day on TV that are like, hey, send us a check for this and we'll send you a blessing. Send us a check for this and we'll send you this. Right.

SPEAKER_02:

And then you come to find out that they're flying around in private jets, spending fifteen thousand dollars a night going to Greek countries. Yeah, they're wearing shoes.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, Costi Hinn had an amazing uh an amazing article uh maybe a a year or two ago that that he wrote about his own experience in growing up. Um, you know, you see uh Harvest Fest uh was it Harvest Fest Festival? No, uh, I think that's parts and correct Harvest International, maybe anyway. Again, another big blow-up over money. Right. You know, sex scandals.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, that's all over the place.

SPEAKER_00:

Like we're most people are familiar with Catholic priest and and their sex scandals. I just found out a couple of months ago, you know, the Southern Baptist Con uh Convention is doing an investigation with from the DOJ because of the same thing. Right. Because all of these things have been happening in churches and it's being covered up. Right. Um abusive practices.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, we we we looked at it with law enforcement, you know, but seriously, the church has been doing this too.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, um the guy you met at um at the Ladybird uh ladybug festival.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

That you were there for for oils. I was there doing an oil display, and but but you wound up talking to this guy and and what happened?

SPEAKER_02:

So um we were talking and he was he told me how cool he thought I was, and we were I mean he was he did. He told me I was really cool and we had a great conversation. Um he's gay, and he I we were talking, and it came up that you were a pastor, and he said, Oh, I never would have imagined that you were a Christian. I said, Well, why? Or he said, a Christian, or that you would be a Christian and talk to me. And I said, Why? And he said, You're just so nice and welcoming, and you've made me feel so comfortable. And I said, Well, why wouldn't I? I mean, Jesus loves people, why would I not love people? And he told me when he was growing up, he went to a church and he came out and told one of the elders that he was struggling with same-sex attraction and he didn't know what to do, so they sent him to some like camp to like camp it out of him, straight camp or something, and then he came back and scared straight something like that, and then they like held him down and did like some like I don't it sounded like like some type of exorcism on him where all the men like held him down to pray for where we're gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01:

They were gonna pray it out of him, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And um, and then eventually they shunned him and then kicked him out of the church, and he said he's never stepped back into a church again. And I I mean I had tears just falling down my face, and I hugged him and I said, I'm so sorry that people who claimed to love Jesus treated you like that.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02:

Because that's not what God calls us to do. And he cried and he gave me a hug, and I've seen him around town here and there, and he always waves to me, but it was just like this interaction with people who are called to love Christ and love people left him wounded for forever.

SPEAKER_00:

And again, don't get me wrong, just like with law enforcement, where I think the vast majority of law enforcement want to do good are are trying to do the right thing. Or church planters, yes, and I think the vast majority of people that go into ministry are trying to do the right thing. They mean well, right. But again, what we have to understand is, you know, if you look at this recently, okay, and and I'm not getting into it because I am not like behind closed doors with any of these people, but you know, we have you know the rise and fall of Mars Hill. There's a whole podcast about that, about you know, the rise of Mart Driscoll, the fall of Mart Driscoll. You you have um whatever I forget the Hillsong thing that we watched on TV, the documentary or whatever that that I don't even remember what it was called. It was all about Carl Lentz and um you know the the the rise and fall of uh Brian Houston. Brian Houston, the Houston family, right? Rise and fall of of Hillsong Church, you know. Then we have money, sex, drugs, and seriously, and one of the most heartbreaking ones for me, you know, with with Matt Chandler stepping down. Again, I'm not talking into any of these things because I don't know you weren't even there. I don't know the any of these people personally. What I do know is when other people see that they go, aha, that's why.

SPEAKER_02:

That's why I don't go to church, that's why I don't trust Christians.

SPEAKER_00:

Even though I don't know them, they don't know me, all of that. We have to understand that just like with the small amount of police that spurned this whole defund police movement, it's the same thing. It's a small I I think the vast majority of Christ followers genuinely love Jesus and are genuinely trying to do the right thing. Right. But that small number that it ruins it for everybody. Everything we just talked about, that creates a lot of distrust in people. Right. And and so if we're looking at this, and and really when we get into this conspiracy theories and and you know the flat earth and and all of that stuff, isn't this really what we're talking about? Is distrust.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Is sitting here going like your information may be correct, it may be right, but I don't trust you. I'm gonna listen to you because I don't trust you.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. And I don't trust you because of all these other things that happened.

SPEAKER_00:

I trust you, Phyllis.

SPEAKER_02:

Trust you, Phyllis.

SPEAKER_00:

Like, but isn't that really what it is? So so I think the topic then turns to, well, then how again, practically Christian podcasts. Here's some practical ways for you to live out your faith. How do we rebuild the community's trust in the church?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, Josh has written out a very clear way to do that. Number one.

SPEAKER_00:

Number one is be present. You know, be present in the community.

SPEAKER_02:

We have a propensity to hide in little bubbles.

SPEAKER_00:

And and just we're just gonna eat at Chick-fil-A. We're just gonna shop at Hobby Lobby.

SPEAKER_02:

Barbecue at Four Rivers only.

SPEAKER_00:

First of all, although we would do that even if we were yes, if you work at Four Rivers, I love you, and thank you so much for your delicious food. It is blessed. It really is. Yeah. Um, the Lord's barbecue. It is the Lord's barbecue. I do think that's what we will I think it's gonna be a combination Chick-fil-A Chick-fil-A and Four Rivers at the the wedding feast of the lamb. Don't get me wrong.

SPEAKER_02:

There might be lamb there too, but anyway.

SPEAKER_00:

But we have this tendency to to just like Surround ourselves with just us. Yep. And and and we're gonna keep all the bad things out there and and we're just gonna kind of hunker down.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Understand when when Jesus talks about building the church in Matthew 16, he says, you know, when you know Peter declares him as the Christ, and and Jesus goes, you know, upon this rock, I will build my church. Upon the understanding that I am exactly who I claim to be, I will build this my church. Right. And the gates of hell will not prevail.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, well, prevail in that sense is a defensive language. In other words, the church is going to be attacking the gates of hell. Not defending themselves. They're not going to be able to stand up. Right. Where I think we take it the other way. We want to hunker down and let the gates of hell try to push into us.

SPEAKER_02:

And then we want to spring into action out of.

SPEAKER_00:

No, we don't.

SPEAKER_02:

Sometimes we have to.

SPEAKER_00:

Sometimes we're forced to. Right.

SPEAKER_02:

That's what I'm saying. Like that we have to do something now.

SPEAKER_00:

But I go, you know, it's reactive not being proactive. Yeah, and by then you're you're so behind, you're never going to be able to run fast enough to catch up. So the first thing we need to do to rebuild the the community trust in the church is we have to, as the church, be present in the community. Be it games, be it football games. Like, you know, volunteer. Volunteer, you know, go to the farmer's market, you know, engage with the community.

SPEAKER_02:

And don't engage with people speaking Christianese. Engage with them as a person. As a human being, as a person. Not not with your I mean, I'm not saying tracks are bad, but not, you know, you don't have to have your Bible in one hand and then, you know, your tract in the other. Just be there, have conversations. Yeah. Buy somebody coffee. Go to lunch with somebody that you don't know that well, or that you just met at the farmer's market.

SPEAKER_00:

So we're gonna be present. The next one is we need to be open. Okay. We we need to get out of this idea that that the pastor and church leaders are are unapproachable.

SPEAKER_02:

They're not accessible. Right.

SPEAKER_00:

There is nothing special about me except for except your um student loan loan bill that said they taught me how to study the Bible.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. And I mean, and there's there's worth in that.

SPEAKER_00:

Um Right, but what I'm saying is that whole idea about I'm the anointed one of God. Right. If we're looking at it in the sense that anointed just means set apart for a specific purpose.

SPEAKER_02:

We all are. Thank you. Anyone that God has called Himself, a royal priesthood of Yep. You know We are all set apart, ears and co-ears. Right.

SPEAKER_00:

There's nothing intrinsically special about that. We need to be open. We need to open up our houses. We need to have our neighbors inside our houses. We need to, you know, be able to have our friends and our coworkers and and you know, up in our house, eating dinner, right, barbecuing, joking, swimming, doing all of those things.

SPEAKER_02:

Watching you discipline your kids, all of the things.

SPEAKER_00:

That sounds like being present. Being present means being out in the community, being open means bringing the community to be part of your life.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. Doing the things that you do. Or doing what they do. Be transparent is your number three.

SPEAKER_00:

Be transparent. People learn, we have to understand, people learn from watching our struggles just as much as they learn from watching our triumphs.

SPEAKER_02:

So there's that shirt, it's fine, I'm fine, everything's fine. Um, it's not. And it's okay that it's not. You can go, yes, I'm hot mess express today.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, and understand, people, you know, people may be looking at you going, how do they keep it together? You know, be transparent though. Like the there's nothing more I hate. In fact, you can be pr transparent when you go to service this week. Stop walking into the building going, Oh, but such a great week. Some of y'all didn't have a good week. And it's okay.

SPEAKER_02:

And somebody else might need to hear that you didn't have a bad week so they can go, oh my gosh, me either. It was awful. And then you may not want to share, but that might be the open opportunity for them to share and get off of their chest and be able to have that support that we own, like we all need to have that support.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's what I mean. The more transparent we are.

SPEAKER_02:

My spouse was driving me crazy, my kids were driving me up the wall, the dog wouldn't stop barking at night, I can't pay my bill. This whatever, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00:

Can you overshare? Yes. Absolutely. There is definitely a line.

SPEAKER_02:

Use wisdom and discernment.

SPEAKER_00:

But like when it comes to money, we are a nonprofit organization.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, way on the money.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. We have money coming in, but I have no problem. Like, we are open with hey, this is where our money is going too.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep, anyone's welcome to look at it. This is what comes in, this is what goes out.

SPEAKER_00:

You know? Number four, be honest. This one should go without saying. But if you want people to trust you, you gotta be honest. Even when it's gonna cost you some popularity points. Yeah. Like, can you define a woman? Yes, I can.

SPEAKER_02:

Moving on.

SPEAKER_00:

But I'm just saying, like, be honest. Be genuine, be real. Like, you know, as far as honest goes. Like, that's what I'm talking about. Be genuine, be real. You know, don't put on this facade. Don't play the part. Like, understand the word hypocrite literally translates as an actor playing the part. Like, the reason why people will stand here and go, You're a hypocrite, is because you are. So am I. Like, we all go, okay, we have these parts to play because we're afraid that if we're really.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't want people to see me and I don't want to be vulnerable in front of people.

SPEAKER_00:

Right, and then they're not gonna like me.

SPEAKER_02:

Or they might have something to hold over my head.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

Or I go, well, I mean, you've said it over. What are you gonna hold over my head? I'm honest, I'm open.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Build your own narrative. Right. You know? And lastly, what we want to look at is be a community. We gotta get past the one-man show. Right. Mission sent is not Josh Lively. I am part of it. I serve a role and a function of it. But every single person who goes, This is my home, is just as much a part of it. Right. And and like, you know, and I say it at the end of every service, we say it at the end of every podcast.

SPEAKER_02:

We love you, we need you. You cannot do this without you.

SPEAKER_00:

We love you, we thank you, and we can't do it without you because we can't. We're not called to do this by ourselves.

SPEAKER_02:

I was thinking the Golden Corral commercial, it threw me off.

SPEAKER_00:

We love you and we need you at the Golden Commander. But I go, we're not called to do this alone.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Like, and and some of the problem with what we see in falls, like of big churches and things like that, is because when we get all secretive with everything, if it's just me and my ability to to determine what's right and wrong.

SPEAKER_02:

You're gonna get it wrong every time.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, maybe not every time, but I'm definitely gonna get shady at times too. Like, I mean, we I I'll be honest, I cheat at board games sometimes now. No, like if like if JT's winning or something, like I might sneak a card or two. You know? So I go sorry, son. But I go, we have to be a community, we have to be, you know, vulnerable with each other, we have to be there for each other, we have to understand that there is no one, like the only amazing person that is part of any church is Jesus. Other than that, everybody is replaceable, right? So I go, so that's why we we are constantly going, let's look to Jesus. So why should we care? Why should we, as as institutions go, we want to build trust in our community because Jesus cared. Because our mission is to seek and save what is lost. Right. And we can't do that effectively if they don't trust us or our message. Like, understand that. Like, how effective are you if like the whole time you're talking, the person in the back of their mind that you're talking to is sitting here going, I don't trust you. Like right out the gate. And everybody you roan into, especially here in America, you would be hard pressed to find someone who's never heard of Jesus in America.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

It seems like everybody has that story. So they they're already on edge. They already are sitting here going, you know, because of the reasons we talked about earlier, we don't trust you. So why would they listen to what I have to say when it comes to, I don't know, their view of gender identity or their view of abortion, or their view, like how am I gonna enter into all of these tough conversations? Right. These uncomfortable, murky, nasty conversations. If they don't trust you. Right.

SPEAKER_02:

Just I mean, off the bat.

SPEAKER_00:

So it it's really hard to be able to seek and save what is lost if they don't trust you.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And so this week, that's what it is. And that is really when we look at conspiracy theories, what we have to say, because this week we challenge you to have a one-on-one conversation with someone outside of your comfort zone. Have the grace to understand that they may not trust you or your motives behind it, but at least talk to them about it. Be present, open, transparent, honest, and start building community. We love you. We thank you, and we can't do this without the first time.

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Debbie

Host
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Josh

Host