Faith, Family, Fishing; Navigating Everyday life
Is your family hurting, broken, or just looking to become closer and stronger? Josh and Debbie are in the business of just that. Working through issues regarding the family from perspectives such as; Pastor, Counselor, Teachers, law enforcement, and parents themselves, Josh and Debbie bring a wealth of information about the family, as well as, real life solutions to problems. If you are a Gen X'er with adult children, a millennial with teenagers, a Gen Z just starting, or something else, we have a show for you. Come take a listen, our aim is to restore the family!
Faith, Family, Fishing; Navigating Everyday life
I Asked My Wife What Annoys Her About Me (Big Mistake)
What happens when a pastor and his wife have a "robust conversation" on air? Find out as we dive into the authentic, sometimes uncomfortable reality of marriage in ministry.
During this uniquely vulnerable episode, I challenge Debbie to share what genuinely frustrates her about me, triggering a fascinating exploration of how we handle conflict. The conversation quickly reveals fundamental differences in our approaches—my tendency to seek facts and evidence versus Debbie's desire for emotional validation. This tension points to a deeper question: how public should a pastor's marriage be?
Most Christians present a polished version of themselves at church while hiding their struggles. As Debbie aptly points out, we're often "comparing our worst day to someone else's filtered best day." But authentic ministry requires transparency. If people are to "imitate me as I imitate Christ" (1 Corinthians 11:1), they need to see not just our strengths but how we navigate our weaknesses.
We examine how gender differences affect communication, with men typically wanting to solve problems while women often seek understanding. Through Romans 12, we discover biblical wisdom for "living peaceably with one another" and the importance of "rejoicing with those who rejoice and weeping with those who weep." The powerful coffee cup analogy reminds us that unresolved issues will eventually spill out, affecting those closest to us.
Whether you're in ministry or simply seeking a healthier relationship, this episode offers practical insights on handling conflict with grace, addressing issues before they become "infections," and finding strength in vulnerability. What frustrations might your spouse identify in you? How might addressing them transform your relationship?
All right, on this episode, I'm going to do what very what I assume very few men do, okay, and I'm going to actually pick a fight with my wife, like you guys are going to hear us fight. I'm not sure I like this hello and welcome to another episode of faith, family and fishing where we are sharing jesus and strengthening families welcome. You know how long it took me to come up with that sharing jesus you know how long it took me to come up with that sharing jesus, strengthening families how long?
Speaker 3:three months, maybe? That's ridiculous.
Speaker 1:Well, I was like, okay, we need to like have a focus for what. This is sure right, because it is very broad, um, but on the same hand, you know, I wanted to make sure again. What is the point? Why are we doing this?
Speaker 3:Why are we taking time out of our day, our schedule, our family, all the things from fishing, exactly?
Speaker 1:But like you heard in the opening there, Debbie really never knows what we're gonna do these episodes on no like she usually finds out maybe a couple of hours before the episode, or if it's sometimes a couple minutes or during the episode um, it's always fun and sometimes you know it may get to like maybe I give you a couple of days if it's something.
Speaker 1:I think like, hey, she needs to research a lot on this one, but this one we were driving into the office this morning and and Debbie had another appointment she had to go to, which I knew she would be gone for at least you know, an hour, hour and a half, and I was like, okay, here, you know, since we know we're recording when we come back the afternoon, or not the afternoon, but late morning, um, here's what the episode's gonna be. I want you to come up with three things that I do that just genuinely cut right through you, that just really really work your nerves and and tick you off. And, and I wanted to do this for a couple of reasons. Number one we had a whole I don't want to say an argument, because it wasn't an argument- conversation a robust conversation yesterday good word for it robust okay um, just about like what the role?
Speaker 1:like? I made the comment that, as a pastor, people should be close enough to see me argue with you, right, um, in first Corinthians 11, one, paul says this imitate me as I imitate Christ. Well, if you don't know what Paul's doing like cause, let's be honest, right, most people, most people who are a part of a church, you have two different people. You have the person you are when you're around your church friends. Right.
Speaker 1:Whether that's at church or or at a church event or something of that nature. And then you have the real you and we can argue and say I'm sorry, that's okay, do?
Speaker 3:you need me to get it. No, I'll get it.
Speaker 1:And we can argue and we can say that that's not true. But Sorry. If that's you, you're a liar.
Speaker 3:Right, it's not the real you.
Speaker 1:You know, I think in the decade I've been doing this in various roles and functions.
Speaker 2:In the decade I've been doing this I think once I'd asked a person like, as you know, they're coming in, it's like, hey, how's it going?
Speaker 1:you know, how are you. You know that greeting that we all do and everyone knows the right words, right oh, I'm great I'm good. You know, it's been a rough week. I'm a little tired, but I'm good, but I'm good. You know, I think I've had one person that was like oh, I'm barely holding it together which threw you off.
Speaker 1:I didn't even know, what to do like I was like, oh man, um, my bad, you want to talk, you want to pray, like how do you want this to go? And and it was you know like, and it did. It threw me off because that's not the good christian response. No, but the conversation came up because of stuff like that, because I go. If all you see is this snapshot like think about social media. Honestly, right, you're comparing your worst day to someone else's filtered best day right right like they don't go to vacation in the tropics.
Speaker 1:You know the caribbean and it is caribbean, not caribbean.
Speaker 3:Um, in the caribbean, like that's not just someone's normal tuesday morning right but you're comparing, they're not swimming in the waters of bora bora just just on a whim like right I mean some people, some people that may be your life your normal person.
Speaker 1:That just doesn't happen yeah, you may got it like that, but most people do not most of your quote unquote friends on facebook or instagram or wherever.
Speaker 1:That's not their every day, but you're comparing your worst time to their best time and that's what people normally do, right, you know? And when we always portray ourselves in that certain light of I'm good, I got it just the other night, right, you know, you, you were having a hard time with some health, uh related issues and I was like Deb, I get it. Like you know, I'm self-con. No, it wasn't even health related. It was, um, was it self-conscious issues, like. All I know is my response was how I feel, knowing I'm balding. It was health related.
Speaker 3:I was like I'm tired of feeling like this. I'm frustrated, I'm annoyed, I can't. There's nothing I do that helps me. And then you share with me how frustrated you are when you look down in the mirror.
Speaker 1:It was about getting older.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Because I was like you're never going to feel the way you did at 18.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:You know, we're not 18 anymore. Right Like our bodies don't react. And that's how. That's how it came up.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:And I was telling you on our way back. No, it was while we were on vacation. Yeah, I went into one of the bathrooms the beach right and, uh, you know to to change, it was a slanted mirror. Yeah, the mirror slanted like, it was like a 30 degree coming off the wall, so it was kind of looking down, um, and you locked eyes with it.
Speaker 1:I'd look down at the sink, you know, to wash my hands, and I look like my eyes came up first and I could see the top of my scalp and I'm like man, I'm balding Because if I look straight on in the mirror, I only see the front of my hair and I got plenty of hair up there. But, man, when you see the top, it's like I have a rim and that was the description I gave you. It looks like a volcano right Around. The outside it's thick, but it's like a big hole in the middle. I can't stop it.
Speaker 3:It's worse to you than what it actually is, and that's where you're like. How dare you not?
Speaker 1:no, it's bad. That's why I wear a hat, like I'm trying to talk myself into. Could I preach with a hat on?
Speaker 3:hang on. This is why I tell you when it's time to cut your hair, but you don't listen because that's always been my deal right.
Speaker 1:I knew I was gonna bald right, like it's just genetics.
Speaker 3:Yes, my family both sides mom and dad all the men, doesn't even matter who it comes from.
Speaker 1:It's happening and I was like, just I don't want to be that guy that looks like he's holding on longer, but anyway, so so I share like that was a good conversation so I share all this with you, and your response to me was but you always portray yourself like you got it all together, like there's nothing you struggle with, like like you got all of it and and I was like man that's right, and what I said was it shouldn't take me having this a breakdown shouldn't be on my deathbed right, I shouldn't be, you know, one step away from the thread breaking for you to be like.
Speaker 3:Oh, by the way, I got some struggles too, because it makes it, you make it, makes you seem unattainable and that's what we do ultimately.
Speaker 1:When, when we're not sharing those parts of our lives, when all people know is, oh, you've got it all together right, you are taking away any ability.
Speaker 3:You have to be there for someone else right like people don't always know that you're an introvert, right like they.
Speaker 1:It throws them off right and and I'm in the middle, like I'm not you're an extroverted introvert yeah, I'm not one of those like hey, we're just gonna go live in a cave.
Speaker 3:I mean I would be fine with it. That's not your goal, right.
Speaker 1:I love people and I love being there to help people.
Speaker 3:Just a certain number of people at one time.
Speaker 1:Yes, but, and that's where that comment yesterday in that conversation came from like where I was like. People need to see the brokenness so that they can see Christ coming through Right In the sanctification process of your life. They need to understand I don't have it all together Right, but this is how Jesus is working and pruning those areas in my life to conform me to his image.
Speaker 1:Right, which ultimately should be the goal of any disciple or Christian or however you want to say it Right. So I was like how can we do this in a way that is going to help people? That is going to help people and I know one of your areas of discomfort is personal things out in public space and I was like I got it. What are three areas?
Speaker 3:I have trust issues. I don't trust anybody. Actually, I trust probably three people. I was about to say am I? I trust?
Speaker 1:probably three people, am I? I was about to say, am I one of the three?
Speaker 3:And then two more, and that's literally it. I love everybody, I just don't trust everybody.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I just I can't see how those things go hand in hand, Because in order for me to love you, I have to trust that I can be vulnerable with you.
Speaker 3:I think that's a whole different space. Trust that I can be vulnerable with you, I think that's a whole different space. I love people that I cannot be vulnerable around because they, the wretchedness that resides deep within their soul, is way too. It's just way too much. Now I know that if I share something with them, they'll potentially use it against me or try, or you know, share it with everybody else in the world or use my vulnerability.
Speaker 1:I only did that once. I'm not talking about you, so actually I do that every Sunday.
Speaker 3:Yeah, when I'm always like, oh gosh, what's he going to say now, clenching my chest. Please don't you and JT, you guys give me the most material to work with.
Speaker 1:Thank you, kayla's up there too. She's getting there. Gabby's starting she's trailing behind kayla's really starting to come into her own, though, um, but so again, like what is it? Like what's number one? Like you, sit here and go this right here.
Speaker 3:This is the thing that so if we're in a conversation and I go, you know what are you laughing?
Speaker 1:hold on. Is it my facial expressions? No, the rolling the eyes those.
Speaker 3:Just that's just a. I think that's just a given what I think any husband and wife have, that you make that face one more time. Um, actually, that's the lowest one.
Speaker 1:But I do want to point out one thing real quick, before we even jump into that. You guys hear how we're like laughing as we're doing this.
Speaker 3:These are real things.
Speaker 1:This is how our arguments go, because I do have the tendency To just start laughing. Usually at something Debbie says or does, Like yesterday it was I got to get my eyes on it. Like we're in the middle of this robust conversation, I go.
Speaker 3:I don't know. I got to see, I got to get my eyes on it.
Speaker 1:And she made that comment and I was like what is that, like you know, cause we were talking about a lot of different scriptures, because the and really you were asking and I'm going to try to rephrase it you tell me if I, you know, got it right, because that'll at least show if I do active listening. Oh boy, really, what you were asking was for biblical, for a biblical understanding of how public a pastor's marriage should be Like. How much of a pastor's marriage should other people see? Should there be things that are kept private, or should it be just in front of everyone?
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:Was that what you were asking?
Speaker 3:Yes, I was asking for biblical context.
Speaker 1:And I was telling you, there's not just like one verse we could go to.
Speaker 3:What I was saying is give me biblical context, give me scripture in context that your marriage should be on display right and, and so not a personal opinion because I go give. Don't give me a personal opinion because you're real big on. Don't give me your personal opinion so evidence and fact.
Speaker 1:Yes, so give me that. Yes, and, and I was explaining to you like there isn't one verse that just hey, boom, here it is.
Speaker 3:Right, and you did give me some good verse. I mean, you gave me good scripture that shared how to be more like Christ.
Speaker 1:So, like in our Wednesday night class, we're doing systematic theology and it's you have to look at everything from Genesis to Revelation, because stuff doesn't exist in a vacuum. You can't just take this one thought and and create a theology out of it right, if it isn't consistent with the rest of scripture right and, and so I mean we were covering leviticus. We were covering like we went into um. You know those books that most people don't even know are there.
Speaker 1:And at the end you were like you've given me a lot to think about, I gotta get my eyes on it. And I lost it because I was like what are we in the?
Speaker 3:50s who talks like that?
Speaker 1:Your wife does. And then, when I started laughing, I think you were like, okay, it's okay, we can both start laughing Right. I think you were like, okay, it's okay, we can both start laughing Right. And my dad told me my whole you know young life before we got married Josh, here's the secret to stopping any argument with your wife. And for those of you that are like, oh, just start laughing. That wasn't his advice.
Speaker 3:That could backfire quickly.
Speaker 1:It has actually for you. It was not for me because you were like you've been very mad where I'm like what? And he's laughing, yeah but? But it was sit close to her, grab her hand, look her right in the eye and go.
Speaker 3:Yes, dear oh my gosh and and again. Terrible advice terrible, that does not start or stop.
Speaker 1:I tried it when we first got married. It did not work, so number one go. What is the biggest? Not my facial expression, not your face.
Speaker 3:That's your third, that's third, and whatever that is who you are, you're going to do that forever. That's fine. When we're talking and you're and I go. You know you do this, blah, blah, blah, blah and it might be something that I've noticed over the course of sometimes it's been our whole marriage and it's just really getting to me and you go that's not true and I go, but it is because I'm telling you it's true. Why are you laughing? Because you know it's true.
Speaker 1:That's not true. That's not what happens.
Speaker 3:Give me fact, give me evidence, give me.
Speaker 1:And I do do that.
Speaker 3:And you do that Now. For the most part, I'm okay with that. There's a couple of things that bother me about that One, I don't take notes.
Speaker 1:I can never. I never have fact and opinion debates what I'm feeling, so it makes me mad.
Speaker 3:Because these are things that have happened and I'm in, I can't Stop it, and what happens is Dang it, josh.
Speaker 1:This is what happens. And then you're like hold on, what was I saying? So, when I say that Right.
Speaker 3:And then you go. It must not be important, and to me I think that comes across.
Speaker 1:As arrogant. We've had this.
Speaker 3:Obviously, we've talked about this.
Speaker 1:We've had this robust conversation a lot let me finish I am. This is the other thing, too, that I know. This is the other thing I know I do that that really just gets under your skin is.
Speaker 3:We're having a robust conversation and I'm like you're playing the conversation four sentences down, right, yeah, and I go have the conversation by yourself, because you don't need me to be here and we've done, yeah, and I go have the conversation by yourself, because you don't need me to be here and we've done that I'll go to the store, um, because what it does on a deeper level, it makes me go.
Speaker 3:You're not valuing what I'm saying, um, you're essentially, in my opinion, calling me a liar and going. All those things that you see in me as my wife, as the person that loves me the most, doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:I'm your husband.
Speaker 3:As your wife.
Speaker 1:Yes, but the way I heard it was like you were calling me your wife and that wasn't.
Speaker 3:And that irritates me because I think it comes from again. It seems to come from a place of arrogance.
Speaker 1:Sometimes, as I look through it deeper, it may come from a place of Well it's definitely brokenness.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I don't think you mean to come off that way. I don't think you mean to come off that way. I just think some of it's a defense mechanism and going. That's not true. I'm not like that, because you do fight. I do see you fight against so much of the things that I mean. You worked on a lot over the course of our marriage, like you've changed a lot, you've done a lot, you've grown exponentially in ways that I think people that knew you 20 years ago would have been like Josh, who yeah.
Speaker 3:You know. So I've seen that growth. So I think, and it could be again from a place of brokenness, maybe a sore wound that's not healed yet, going whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 1:You're coming at me sideways and I think and I could be wrong, you could you're getting defensive and then it misses where I'm coming from so, and and the one thing I want to point out before I even jump into any kind of response is um, I like how you said, I don't write stuff down, you know, because, again, if we're following scripture and we're sitting here going, this is what love is. And in first corinthians, 13, paul, that that's verb, almost verbatim what he says.
Speaker 1:Love keeps no record of wrongdoing right some of problems that that especially in in marriage counseling that I see is hold on. I will say we have kept notes on this.
Speaker 3:Hold on.
Speaker 1:But we did that on purpose, like that was something we discussed and went.
Speaker 3:Wait, the first time I did not expect you. I told you to write it down. And then got mad because I wrote it down and then he brought out his phone and opened up his notes and it was like are you kidding me?
Speaker 1:So I was like this is a no-win situation.
Speaker 3:That started a whole other argument, I'm sorry, a whole other robust conversation.
Speaker 1:But I go that was funny.
Speaker 3:It wasn't funny at the time.
Speaker 1:Yes, we don't keep record of wrongdoing. In other words, if you're holding on to that, pardon me.
Speaker 3:If you're holding on, to that, pardon me if you're holding onto all of that and it just becomes a tit for tat you're not going to be gaining any ground in that conversation and there are sometimes that does happen and I think we need to recognize arrogance sometimes.
Speaker 1:For me, and just in, in my perspective of this um, it's not a defense mechanism, like it's not. Okay, you said something about me, so'm gonna buck up, right, the. The reason I go okay, give me an example, give me evidence, give me you know something of that nature is you know facts and and stuff like that is more so because I go, I want to pull feeling out of it.
Speaker 1:Right, because feelings and and I know people really don't know where I stand on feelings- because, half the people that know me are like you're dead on the inside and the other half of people know I'm a very passionate person and I feel things very different, or deeply right
Speaker 1:but. But I'm not like hinged on my feeling, right, um, because feelings are not right and they're not wrong. They they just are. But when I view things through feeling opposed to when I view things through truth and I think you have to have both right feelings are how you like. Feelings are what you use to live your life.
Speaker 3:Right, Like you might have a gut feeling about something that keeps you safe.
Speaker 1:Even looking at it in the confines of our marriage, right? If I didn't feel things for you then you would just be a roommate.
Speaker 3:Right right.
Speaker 1:You know, so you need that part of it. But to me truth will always trump feeling.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:Because that part of it. But to me, truth will always trump feeling, right? Um, because a lot of times I may not feel a certain kind of way, but that doesn't mean I don't need to act a certain kind of way because of the fact that I am your husband, you know. So when I go, okay, like you bring up whatever right, like you're so mean to me, because that's, that's a robust conversation we've had before.
Speaker 3:Because, because I haven't said you're mean to me. I've said you're mean right but not like you're coming at me attacking me no mean, I don't want people to think you're just like you're a mean one. Yeah, no I just start, josh. It'll make all the sense when you come dressed.
Speaker 1:But anyway, no, no, no, no. But like, because I view feeling in truth the way I view feeling in truth, I can come off cold and and a lot of times when, when going back to the whole mean thing, I don't think you're referring like mean, I think it's more along the lines of you're very cold.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Um, because, like, when we're in the middle of a robust conversation, I'm not sitting there and and you know, I've heard so many, you know other pastors that that I genuinely look up to that that have said, like, if she's, um, I know joe b martin, he, he just did a men's or I think it was a men's conference.
Speaker 1:I only saw the youtube thing for it um, but one of the things he was saying is, when your wife comes to you with feelings, you have to deal with her with feeling, um, you know, and, and, and I get that right, like when you're coming at me with I feel I can't come back with. Well, the truth is Right.
Speaker 3:Because it completely cuts my feet out from under me and goes it doesn't matter what you're feeling, your feeling is very invalid, right?
Speaker 1:And although I can see the truth behind that, sure, it's hard because I know I sit here and go. But that's not true, but I feel things all the time Right here and go. But that's not true.
Speaker 3:but I feel things all the time right and that doesn't make that feeling valid, right, you know, and that can be difficult sometimes, because you're you and I don't think, it's just you, I think and sometimes people filter it through. You filter what someone else is saying, through what you think or feel or how you've thought or felt, and it's like but I'm not talking about you and I'm not asking you what you think or feel. I'm talking about me and I'm coming to you about me. So what you think and feel is irrelevant, because we're talking about me right now.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying that seems to be like but does that make sense?
Speaker 3:Like yeah, but when you put it into that context, I go we're always talking about you, because well, if you think about it, if you come to me with a concern and I keep talking about me, how irritated does that get you? You're like, but I'm not talking about you. Like we've had those conversations where I've had to keep readjusting myself because I'm like trying to talk to you about what I would do if I like, how I think about something or how I see something, and you're going, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about this and it's the same thing, it's just a different.
Speaker 1:It's the same but different right and I, and I do think this is why you know Stephen Covey in his book seven habits, like that's why one of the habits is seek first to understand, then be understood correct, right, like because if I don't understand where you're coming from, or I don't understand what you're trying to say, and and I'm just so quick, and and that's the other thing. Some of it, I do think, is just a genuine personality thing not personality thing. I think it's a genuine gender thing. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, like I think males, for the most part, are wired, just hardwired to fix things.
Speaker 3:A hundred percent.
Speaker 2:Real men. Well, yes, men, okay, not just males, sorry, I just have to get that out.
Speaker 1:Right, but I don't want to get lost in the woods on that one, men, and I just think, by nature, in how God created us, I mean, even when you look at creation, right, you know, god puts Adam in the garden and goes here's a task, go get this done, go name all the animals Right, right, um.
Speaker 2:And it's while Adam's doing that that he realizes oh, like this is the first time we see not good in scripture right.
Speaker 1:You know all the way through creation up to this point it's. You know God created. It was good. Right. And now God looks and goes. Okay, it's not good for man to be alone. Let me make a helper that is fit for him and and I know there's a lot of ladies out there that get mad at stuff like that and and I go. Some of that is you just don't understand, like what that means. Right, Like God's literally sitting here and going. He can't do this by himself.
Speaker 1:Let me give him someone else that can help him do this Right and I think women for the most part, are hardwired to be more I don't want to say like more emotional and sound like that stereotypical.
Speaker 3:I think we're more comfortable with expressing emotion. I don't think guys don't feel emotion. I think you guys just keep it a little.
Speaker 1:But see, and that's what I'm saying, that's not what I'm talking about, right, like men are hardwired to fix things. So you come to me and and you have an issue. You, you know, I'm feeling a certain type of way. Right, the first thing in my mind is I want to make it better.
Speaker 3:Right, I want to fix it which sometimes makes you gloss over that moment right right and that and that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:Like, yes, you know, for you it's different, right? You're not necessarily looking for me to fix something no you're sitting here going hey, I want to know you're with me, that you're going to walk with me through.
Speaker 3:You're going to protect me, that you're going to be safe, right and and that I have that space right um and that's those are conversations we've had many times where I told you I was listening where we, where we have gone to one another and been like I'm not looking for, I'm not looking for a conversation, I'm not asking your advice, I have some things I need to say. Get off my chest and then we're going to move on. Now that could be about me.
Speaker 1:But that's something. That's something and it's not very new, but that's something. We had to come to a conclusion. Right, that would that was an issue. Yeah, you know, in the first five years of our marriage where I was like I guess I forget how long we've been together.
Speaker 3:It's not fairly new, right where we.
Speaker 1:We got to a point where I was like, hey look, if we're gonna do it, let's do it this way, like come to me and let me know this up front right, but there's also I know I've talked to many people that do something similar, but they they're not.
Speaker 3:The other person isn't always on board so that's something we had to come to together and go okay. So now that doesn't mean there are times that I've not gone to you, like I've gone to you and said something and you're like fine, we're not gonna talk about it, but at some point later we are going to talk about it like we have like we have to address this on a deeper level.
Speaker 3:Right, you can say what you have to say, that's fine. We won't have to talk about it right now. But because you know, we're married and we have kids and we have a life and we want to have a successful and we're in ministry like there's all so many things. This is an issue that needs to be addressed, because I know for me I can say something over and, over and over again, and if it's not addressed or dealt with, I'm just going to keep spiraling right, and won't you, too, bless your heart?
Speaker 1:but that's where, like even last week, not last week, two weeks ago, you know, when we were looking at romans 12, 15, you know, and and again we'll see it again in romans 12, 18 or 19, I can I forget off the top of my head, but paul talks about this like, as far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all, and you know we saw, live in harmony with one another, right, right, um, and, and I go.
Speaker 1:And this is why, if we're basing things off of anything other than the, than the bible, like whatever the latest self-help fat is, right and and seriously, and I look at it like just look at eggs right in our lifetime eggs went from the incredible edible egg to eggs are the worst thing you can eat because they're so high in fat and cholesterol, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then another decade passes and it's like, oh, you need to eat eggs because there's such a good source of protein and good fats, and you know all of this and I go when we're basing things off of things that aren't scripture.
Speaker 1:It's the same process right and and we go, okay, the this, this month's self-help, self-marriage, whatever fad is this? And this is what you should be doing right but I go. But when we look at scripture and this is even tying back to the whole marriage thing you know, and?
Speaker 1:and how public should your marriage be? We see this live in harmony with each other. We see this, as far as it depends on you, live, you know, peaceably with one another. Um, yeah, paul's talking about us and our relationship with others in our lives, but he's also talking about like in your household, sure, right. So like, in order for me to live peaceably with you, I had to get to that point where I went, okay, hold on, she's not looking for something to be fixed right now, she's not looking for my input right now. Right, you know. And so it had to get to a point where I was sitting here going, all right, hold on, let me listen to what she's actually saying, right, and we can go from there, because sometimes it is. And again, I mean, this is why Romans 12 is huge.
Speaker 3:It's so big.
Speaker 1:Right, Because sometimes it's just rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep. You know, sometimes that's that's what you're looking for. You're just looking for me to you know, let you lay down on my chest and and go. Hey babe, I know, this sucks right now but I'm sorry this is happening but it's we're.
Speaker 3:You know, we're going to get through it, just like we've gotten through so many other things and I think only and I can only speak from a wife's perspective talking about, but I just want to get it out there Um, I think there's wisdom in going to your husband before you go to anybody else about issues. I think.
Speaker 1:Well, and even even looking at Matthew 18, I think there's wisdom in going to the person you have an issue with before you go to other people.
Speaker 3:I hear what you're saying, but I'm saying, though, like before I consider talking to anybody about anything, I go to you um, and are you talking about with an issue with me, or just an issue in general? With you or in general, especially when it comes to you.
Speaker 1:I don't think see, and that's that's why I went to matthew 18, because I thought you were talking about like, if you had an issue with me, you should like, like.
Speaker 3:No, but you cut me off. So I was like I'm going to circle back to it.
Speaker 1:So I got you.
Speaker 3:So I think there's wisdom in going. I'm going to talk to my spouse whether it's a problem with him. I'm not saying, don't go to somebody wiser than you, someone that's been married longer. I'm not saying that that's not appropriate. I just don't think you should go to anybody and everybody. So if you're struggling through something, I'm gonna go to you before I and actually I don't go to anybody else. So, like, for me it's different. I don't go to anybody else, I just go to you, and I think there would be a lot healthier conversations in marriages.
Speaker 1:Um, if you look at your spouse and go this is my person like this is who I need to go to 100 like a somebody like and and you do have other people you go to sure what you know just like me yes, just like I have other people that I go to and and talk to. I mean, I don't want to call anyone out by name, but like don't, but we do have other people I guess I have a one or two people I go to right, and I'm not saying the circle needs to be huge but what?
Speaker 3:everybody shouldn't have a say so but I think there's a propensity to. I'm gonna talk about my problem with someone and what you end up doing is just becoming it becomes a bash session about your spouse or whatever the situation is and then it never gets resolved, and then you're just repeating yourself over and over and over and over to 10 different people about the same problem and you still haven't gone to your spouse about whatever the issue but saying that's why.
Speaker 1:That's why I was saying Matthew 18, because whether it's with you or whether it's with anyone else in my life, like if I have a problem with someone, if my brother sins against me, I should go to that person, like that should be the first conversation I have. Yeah, it's awkward and it's messy and sometimes it's not very fun, but that's that's the first person I need to talk to. If that doesn't work, that's when I go seek those wiser. You know counsels, right, right, those you know maybe it is a parent, or you know a really close friend that that has been married longer than you, that that that you look at their marriage and because you've seen so much of it, you can go hey, that is a marriage I respect.
Speaker 3:Right, I trust this.
Speaker 1:Then I'm going to go talk to them and then, if that doesn't work, you know, then, all right, now we, we need to bring in the big guns.
Speaker 1:You know, now, now's, when we need to start seeking, maybe professional help, or you know something of that nature, or your pastor, or you know whoever. But what you guys and I'm going to wrap it up with this for this episode, at least if you, if you appreciated this episode, like you know, let us know If this is more, you know the episodes that are going to be able to help you guys, let us know Like that's what we going to be able to help you guys, let us know, like that's what we want to do. Yep, but to wrap it, you know, up, and put it in a bow, because we didn't even get to numbers two and three, right, no, and I will say I mean, if you're looking for a laundry list of things that I'm frustrated with it's, I mean, honestly, I can't. This could be a whole separate podcast, because it would go the other way too, right, like the reason I didn't go. Oh, I'm gonna tell you three things that Debbie does.
Speaker 3:That frustrates me there's not this long.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I don't know if I could because and because and here's why it's not that there haven't been things right like you know there's nothing lingering. One of the things we do and we do well is we go? Okay, there's a problem. Let's confront the problem. Right, let's work through the problem right and then let's move past the problem.
Speaker 3:Yep, I go, because unresolved issue turns into it's like an infection yes it'll be gangrene and you're gonna have to cut something out yep, and, and so I go some of some of the times.
Speaker 1:That's what you need to do. You need to go. Hey, we got a problem yeah you know? That's why they say admittance is the first step to healing, or whatever that crap is because what you have in will come out one way or the other. It's gonna be so. If you got a bunch of anger and bitterness because you got a bunch of unresolved issue, understand that's going to come out in many different forms and ways so there's, and I know we as we were wrapping this up.
Speaker 1:This is what happens when I'm preaching, by the way I know okay, I'm ready to close. Oh, hold on you had lie.
Speaker 3:You giggled when I said this once, but it was. It's a really good analogy, I didn't come up with it. So if somebody bumps into you and you have coffee in your cup and it spills, whose fault is it that the coffee spilled?
Speaker 1:Are you asking me?
Speaker 3:The coffee was in the cup already. It was already full to the top. So if you bump into somebody and you already have all this stuff on the inside, so you bumped into someone, you just, or they bumped into you, you both ran into each other.
Speaker 1:You came around the corner, so neither one of you were paying attention. Right each other you came around the corner.
Speaker 3:You were paying attention, right see. You see this is how our conversations go, but I go. It's not your fault, it's not. There's coffee in the cut, you're. You're full to the brim already.
Speaker 1:What you have in is going to come out, and it's going to come out the wrong person if you don't handle your business yeah, because I mean, and let's be honest, and again, this whole nother podcast, if you guys are interested, because there are times I'm angry with so and so, but you're gonna take the brunt of that anger yes even though it has nothing to do with you right but you're gonna do one little thing that any other day wouldn't be a big deal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it would just be a whatever and I'm gonna let it go and it's gonna turn into world war three, because I'm already mad at so-and-so.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:So hope you guys learned something on this episode Hope it was helpful. I think it is. So do I? I mean, that's why we're putting it out. But you know, I can only be responsible for part of that.
Speaker 3:See I can keep going. We'll do it in the next one. Keep going.
Speaker 1:Sorry, so I could keep going, we'll do it in the next one.
Speaker 3:Keep going, sorry, so until next week.
Speaker 1:You can always follow us online at mission sentorg.
Speaker 3:Facebook, instagram, instagram Um maybe tick tock soon, I don't know. No, I just want to see what you'd say.
Speaker 1:Um, like comment. Subscribe, subscribe, subscribe, subscribe if you're not subscribed, and share with someone you think you know needs to benefit but until we talk again. We love you, we thank you and we can't do this without you bye guys.
